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at Bernd 2025-09-08 15:34:13 No. 9425

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I fucking hate it when videogames get halberds and pikemen wrong. Civilization 5 and Stronghold do that. Not only do they literally call halberdiers pikemen, they also settle them in normal middle age when in fact they came in 13th and 14 century. On top of that, real pikemen came even later than halberds at as early as 14th century. Imbecile game devs ...
Yes, they often get halberds wrong. Pic 1 would be a medieval halberd. Pic 2 is what most imagine halberds to look like, but they're a very late design from the 16th/17th Century. As for Stronghold, imo its worst offense is full plate knights moving at a snail's pace.
>>9426 >As for Stronghold, imo its worst offense is full plate knights moving at a snail's pace. That is indeed even dumber since deathstacking is such a thing in this game since it has no collission. So basically any unit deals more damage by stacking up faster than the swordsman. A pikeman halberdier can also eat more arrows/bolts than a swordsman eventhough he has no shield. This game is so dumb.
>real pikemen came even later than halberds at as early as 14th century so it took mankind 3oo years to put the spearhead on a longer stick?
>>9433 Nah there were pikemen in ancient times but they werent a thing in middle age until swiss mercenaries in 14th century that was my point.
>>9434 Pike formations require complex drill, obviously they existed in antiquity but after that they didn't reappear until the Late Middle Ages.
>>9436 >>9438 caracole tactics was used to defeat pikemen by reiters and such
>>9439 The flaws in the Swiss tactics quickly became apparent when they tried to expand into Italy. However, it was more than enough to repel old-fashioned feudal armies at the time.
Stronghold left my young childhood brain with long lasting mental scars. For a long time I thought pikes were halbreds and then even when I learnt that wasn't the case there was still this nagging thought in the back of my head that would keep saying that pikes were halbreds. I should sue.
>>9439 The English also defeated the Scottish pikes by weakening it with Longbowmen and then exploiting that weakness with cavalry. But sometimes terrain meant that wasn't possible and so the Scots would win. That's probably part of why Swiss Pike men couldn't expand into Italy like >>9441 said.
>>9457 Mostly it was lack of cavalry (with the Po Valley being ideal terrain for them) and lack of cannon. Charles the Bold used English Longbowmen against the Swiss in the Burgundian Wars and they weren't at all effective.
>>9482 It's hard to say. It doesn't seem like long bowmen were a major part of his army and I can't find much about how they actually were employed or what they did.
Will receive this beautiful figure kit tomorrow but I'm torn on how to assemble and paint it. One one hand, the version with the gugel/felt cap with the feathers is the iconic look of the Swiss soldiers of that period. On the other, with the German sallet he looks a bit more warlike. Very excited to get started either way.
>>10405 Based history figure collector

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>>10424 There's this Spanish guy on PlanetFigure who makes beautiful wildlife dioramas
>>10427 I want those spotted hyena figures.
>>9425 Videogames mostly get NOTHING right about arms and armor. Because they are games, and need to kinda balance stuff. All kinds of weapons, or at least most of them, need to be viable to a degree, or else it would be boring. It bugs me most with armor. There is this old idea of "light armor", whether this means textile or leather armor, where you are just so mobile and quick that you can dodge, and heavy armor, and maybe some middle ground. Or the idea that textile is light, chainmail is "medium" and plate is heavy armor. In reality, plate armor is so vastly superior that only decades after it became a thing, fucking everyone used it and chainmail became only some addition to cover gaps. There is simply no single reason to wear a chainmail instead of plate armor, its not even lighter, although many people think this. But Stronghold is a bad example in any way. It doesnt get anything right, but it is also not supposed to. I dont even know if there is any RTS game that gets historical scenarios really right. It took the video game industry decades before stuff like Kingdom Come even took an attempt of doing things kinda right.
>>11050 HEMA Bernd I assume. I do like Manor Lords' autism, but updates are slow (precisely because it's the project of an assburger who double and triple checks every little detail). The castle building updatewas announced for this month but it's been quiet so far. This would put it a big step forward towards being a more authentic Stronghold kinda game.
>>9426 >As for Stronghold, imo its worst offense is full plate knights moving at a snail's pace. They get the entire core concept of a siege wrong. Because I played it so much as a child, I thought sieges were these huge battles where thousands of soldiers try to break through walls and gates, fire catapults, the defenders have walls full of archers and crossbowmen, ballistas on top of towers, ditches full of pitch and murderholes and so on and so forth. Then I got into medieval warfare and read sources, and learned that - by far the most castles were never besieged - from the ones that were besieged, the majority defended successfully - the usual garrison of a castle was under 10 people, even if the castle was big, and the defence strategy was mostly "close the doors and wait for help" Everything else in stronghold is just arcade stuff as well. Bows doing not much against unarmored people, walls, gates, and towers that easily break down, traps of all kinds, the crude mix of high and late medieval troops, the absence of cavalry except for stuff like siege machine hunting and so on. I am actually fine with this because the game is just old and never really pretended to be realistic, and it hit my nerve just right at the time i was a child. >>11055 Yes, I am I never played manor lords and watched only small snippets of it, but I of course fully support autistic nerds who take their time to get details right. A more realistic medieval setting can be so much more interesting and exotic than a setting which basically tries to be modernity and modern structures, just with older clothing and gear. Stuff like a town guard makes sense for people in 2025, but thats no reason to implement the equivalent of modern police. Same for stuff like rural conscripts and stuff like this. People desperately want to see poor, inexperienced farmers with scythes and flails, clothed in rags, because thats what they "know" about these times. This shit just happened with some big peasants war reenactment in germany. They wanted to get almost realistic numbers of fighters, and they obviously couldnt because they didnt advertise enough, and they dindt want to pay reenactors well. So in the end, they ended up with 5 riders in inaccurate gear, some landsknechts (at least), but also a bunch of 30 year's war reenactors that were 100 years too late, and they absolutely went against the advice of the historians they invited to plan the event. They desperately wanted the uprising peasants to be poor, dirty and ill-equipped, because thats what seemed logical to them, and disregarded all sources that made absolutely clear that the peasants used their militias and all the gear that belonged to them, had their own artillery, pikemen, gunners, people in plate armor and so on. So they ended up with a wild mix of late medieval, landsknecht and 30 years war reenactors vs. a bunch of hobos in potato sacks with flails and pointy sticks. Fuck this shit.
>>11057 The gear looks good for the most part, and even the animation is close on how you should fight with a pollaxe. This stuff is hard to simulate, tho, which goes for all martial arts and combat sports. Its hard to translate something that you need your whole body plus a weapon for to a keyboard and mouse, or a controller. Stuff like grappling is even worse to simulate. But it tries really good, i think. Same goes for stuff like Mordhau or Hellish Quart.
>>11061 Have you tried it? It's a free demo on Steam, already hours of gameplay if you have the right kind of 'tism.
>>11057 >>11062 oh, so, yeah, some newer videogames get this stuff right, or at least get close to it. But its mostly limited to pure combat games, where you can integrate stuff like armor kinda better. In an open world game, it would just suck if you HAD to get armor if you dont want to get killed immediately. sadly i have the wrong kind of 'tism where i only play videogames i discovered before my 20s.
>>11063 >sadly i have the wrong kind of 'tism where i only play videogames i discovered before my 20s. Sad!
>>11059 ML is specifically set in Franconia in the second half of the 14th Century (despite the dev being a Pole), so the typical "kitchen sink" problem where you have a wild mix of different armour styles from 1000 years of history mashed together is absent.
>>11075 I wish more video games would simply do this. This is the first rule of reenactment, always: Pick a time and place and go from there. When its done good, like with ML or KCD, people who are no experts still see the aesthetic and logic, and people who know stuff are delighted.