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il gnostic Jesus and the wicked tentant parable Bernd 2025-10-31 12:51:28 No. 19295
I always found the wicked tentants parable found in the mark and Matthew gospels interesting: This idea that you are this precious, almost divine, vineyard, rented out, occupied, oppressed, debased and humiliated by evil temporary tentants. This idea that something is not right with the world or with life, there is a bug. The rightful owner of the vineyard even sent his servants and his own son to correct the mistake, and they were killed. Thus I can really appreciate the concept of Jesus as an interdimensional savior, freeing the human from his evil tentants. Yet all this appreciation falls to the ground once I interact with common traditional christians: they often say that "Jesus died for your sins". Which sins? I'm just a sad Bernd that did no evil to anyone. It seems that Christianity is mostly about confession, repentance. Is my view wrong, Bernd? Am I missing the core message of Christianity?
Matter doesn't even have a solid definition. In the old mechanical philosophy, pre-Newton, it did have a definition. The world was seen as corpuscular and the whole world interacted through contact mechanics. Then Newton came along and showed there's this "occult force" (his actual words) that moves things at a distance, without contact. He was very much disturbed by this fact yet he had to admit it's truth. Gravity, an occult force, moves things through action at a distance. Later people accredited the founding of quantum mechanics for having destroyed the idea of pure materialism but that's actually incorrect. Newton did it was his discovery of gravity. > It is commonly believed that Newton showed that the world is a machine, following mechanical principles, and that we can therefore dismiss “the ghost in the machine,” the mind, with appropriate ridicule. The facts are the opposite: Newton exorcised the machine, leaving the ghost intact. The mind-body problem in its scientific form did indeed vanish as unformulable, because one of its terms, body, does not exist in any intelligible form. Newton knew this very well, and so did his great contemporaries. >John Locke wrote that we remain in “incurable ignorance of what we desire to know” about matter and its effects, and no “science of bodies [that provides true explanations is] within our reach.” Nevertheless, he continued, he was “convinced by the judicious Mr. Newton’s incomparable book, that it is too bold a presumption to limit God’s power, in this point, by my narrow conceptions.” Though gravitation of matter to matter is “inconceivable to me,” nevertheless, as Newton demonstrated, we must recognize that it is within God’s power “to put into bodies, powers and ways of operations, above what can be derived from our idea of body, or can be explained by what we know of matter.” And thanks to Newton’s work, we know that God “has done so.” The properties of the material world are “inconceivable to us,” but real nevertheless. Newton understood the quandary. For the rest of his life, he sought some way to overcome the absurdity, suggesting various possibilities, but not committing himself to any of them because he could not show how they might work and, as he always insisted, he would not “feign hypotheses” beyond what can be experimentally established. https://chomsky.info/201401__/
>>20258 >Matter doesn't even have a solid definition It does. Spin 1/2 particles. Disregarded the rest of your comment.
>>20259 >Disregarded the rest of your comment. Your loss bucko.
>>20227 We probably will keep going in circles. But even if what you said was true(it's not) that would still not imply an absolute good.
>>20238 >and you have to resort to mental gymnastics to explain it does No. >Or your materialistic worldview may be in peril. What?
>>19295 The landowner = God The tenants = Zionist Jews The servants = Palestinians The son = Jesus It isn't a difficult parable to figure out.
>>20290 Back to kohlshit with you.
>>20154 The twins studies already did the nature vs nurture thing, nature is the main factor for potential, nurture is a factor in deciding how much of that potential is reached. Intelligence is a largely heritable trait.
>>20154 IQ isn't a great measure of intelligence... Even in the US, 50-100 years ago white Americans would typically score above average on IQ tests and minorities would score like 60-80. Now, it is more like 95. All that shows is that IQ is a measure of education.
I don't think the Vineyard man deserves to have that Vineyard, he sounds pretty stupid.
>>20321 But you are right. If you look at countries where the education is lacking, they believe in God and miracles and fate and spirits and all sorts of nonsense. If you look at countries where the population is educated, they might also believe in God, but it's a limited distant God, not this God that appears in the sky and performs miracles and someone saw it and you have to believe. That only happens in poor countries.
>>20323 Poor countries like the US?
>>20324 The US isn't a poor country. It ranks in per capita wealth and all the countries around it are tiny, apart from small countries like Switzerland, the Netherlands, and Norway, which tend to be behind it. Australia is 12th. But if you want to use your comparison, religion in the US doesn't emphasize miracles like it would say in Latin America. I don't think many Americans (or Australians) would say that they saw God in the sky or witnessed a miracle.
>>20326 It ranks 8th in per capita wealth
>>20326 What about people like the Amish, Mormons, Baptists and the Seventh day Avengers?
And also, if the US isn't a poor country why does it still have rabies, no properly functioning welfare system(or government lol) and no paid maternity leave?
>>20328 A lot of the Protestant denominations in the US heavily emphasize the Bible over anything else. Essentially that the Bible is this miraculous, perfect book while arguing that a lot of the other commonly held Christian beliefs are bullshit. Baptist example being that infant baptism is bullshit. >>20329 The US has rabies because it has a large number of bats which harbor rabies and are impossible to eradicate. Bats are like the perfect vessel for rabies as they live in big colonies, hang upside down, bite and scrap each other during the day and then venture out at night. The US has paid maternity leave, it is just not directed by the government. If you are working a good job in the US you will get paid maternity leave but the government isn't going to order that you have to receive it. Same with healthcare, if you are working a good job then they will offer you healthcare, but the government isn't going to order it. Why is the US healthcare system like this? Because American health insurance companies make a lot of money off this system and use that money to lobby politicians to keep it this way. It's not designed not to work. It is designed to work as long as you are putting money into it, which is used to keep it going...
>>20330 Australia has bats too. Just stop eating them.
>>20331 Australia has never had rabies. It is an island so the rabies virus has never crossed over and infected the bats. It does have ABLV, which is similar.
>>20332 What about Western Europe and Japan? They got rid of it. Just stop eating bats...
>>20334 Europe killed off all it's wildlife and Japan is an island that got rid of Rabies my vaccinating it's dog population. Like I said that wouldn't work in the US because it is 1) not an island and 2) bats are the main vessels of rabies in the US so any rabies elimination program would have to target them primarily, not dogs. There hasn't been an attempt to do that yet.
>>20336 Also, bat isn't eaten in the US but is commonly eaten in Oceania. At least half the bat species in Oceania are eaten.
>>20336 To eliminate rabies from the US, rabies would have to be eliminated entirely not just from the bat population, but foxes, skunks, possums, etc, not just in the US but in Canada and Mexico as well. Even then, it would still get reintroduced through Central America. This means getting rid of rabies is impossible given the current technology we have now.
>>20290 So Palestinians were sent by god to teach Zionist Jews to leave the vineyard?
>>20356 Its a very overt parable. The landowner = God The son = Jesus The people = people The vineyard = Earth, Israel/Palestine There is very little concealment or alternate interpretation, it is literally saying that God will send his people who would be struck down, then he would send Jesus who would also be struck down. >to leave the vineyard The tenants weren't asked to leave. They were allowed to live at the vineyard. Hence the name, tenants. It was just that, once they were allowed to live at the vineyard, they ganged up and claimed it as theirs and denied the landowner, his son, and his servants.
I support Italyball ITT. Stay strong.
>>20371 Accurate. People have become rotten. They have become scum and need to be exterminated. God once cleansed the earth with water and killed everyone but Noah. This time, god will cleanse the earth with fire. The unbelievers will call it 'nuclear war', but it will be the hand of God that will press the button!
>>20385 No it is Harry Potter.
>>20385 How many nukes does the Vatican have?
>>20371 Jehova is stupid then isn't he. He should have gotten the authorities involved after his servants got killed. Sending his son after that was just dumb.
>>19295 >Is my view wrong, Bernd? Am I missing the core message of Christianity? Recently watched Long Story Short and I gotta say, I like the concept of waiting for a Messiah instead of accepting that our Messiah died like a loser to mere mortals and improved nothing on this world; in fact, he made everything worse.
>>19295 There's too choices of Christianity: 1. Just be nice to everyone, even though they are assholes. Which is a great tool to feel more important than anyone who doesn't live that way, but that's besides the point. I appreciate that value IRL, but I gladly hate people online, because being nice is unthankful and doesn't get you anywhere. I watch videos about streamers who became criminals, they were all rich despite being horrible people. 2. Remind yourself daily that you're horrible person because hell awaits. Touch your dick while peeing? Better confess, bitch. Then, for SOME reason, judge everyone else who misbehaves or simply isn't from your community and try to save them from hell. I still don't understand that behaviour. Maybe its jealousy of anyone who lives without those boundaries.
>>20420 You have a childish understanding lf Christianity. so do many christians, admittedly
>>20221 >More like, out of its own complexity. Why, with what goal does moral emerge from matter then?
>>20203 >Allah and Jehovah are the same. Lol, no. Allah is just another jinn that buttfucked Mohamed. Jehovah is Chronos is Saturn and creates our physical through limitation by literally cutting space and time into individual sequential parts to make a linear experience of reality possible.
>>20559 Probably because I stopped caring after childhood. I'm only interested in religion as a setup for a movie or series now, and only research when a game brings it up. Hell, Bible fanfiction is more interesting than the religion itself (e.g. The Divine Comedy).
>>20575 So all your knowledge stems from childhood? Maybe start reading the Bible again as an adult to update your opinion then.
>>20573 Who says God wasn't originally a Djinn who just buttfucked Jesus before a ton of people rewrote the bible however they fucking wanted?
>>20579 >Who says God wasn't originally a Djinn Every actual clairvoyant who is worth his salt for instance, like Edgar Cayce or Rudolf Steiner.
>>20578 I could but its sooo goddamn loong. Mine is also printed on paper which must have been chosen by Catholics, because not getting a papercut from that is impossible.
>>20581 Just read Genesis from the Old Testament and the four main gospels from the New Testament to start with. Maybe add the Dead See Scrolls for some gnostic perspective.
>>20583 Honestly I'm just more interested in God wrecking shit, when you're raised Christian then all you hear about is Moses and Noah ad nauseam.
>>20585 >Honestly I'm just more interested in God wrecking shit That sounds very infantile.
Honestly I didn't read the whole thread, but to me the point of the parable is - Jesus was just one man, he couldn't fix it. People acting on his behalf could, and would have a duty to do so. > Yet all this appreciation falls to the ground once I interact with common traditional christians: they often say that "Jesus died for your sins". Which sins? It's just one of many parables. To answer this question, you'd have to look at everything else in the NT.
>>20572 Why does stuff need a goal?
>>20573 Take your medication. They are both the same God, Christians just believe Christ is the son of Jehovha whereas Muslims don't and instead believe Muhammed is special.
>>20696 You are correct, the complicated part is that Muslims believe that theirs is the only correct version. Specifically, all of the old and new testament were actually Muslims and not Jews and that Jews and Christians are misled. This is a bit different than Christianity which tends to view itself as an extension of Judaism, not separate from Judaism. Islam and Judaism probably have more in common than either do with Christianity, however.
>>20699 Specifically, Judaism and Islam both practice strict monotheism, are law based, and focus on a relationship with God without intermediaries. Christianity diverges on all of these core tenants.
>>20700 Islam however, rewrites the Torah and new testament and draws it together into a new book that is more similar to how the Torah is written than the Bible. Since everything is rewritten, everyone is now and always Muslim. Christianity's old testament is closer to the original Torah, therefore those people are Jews and not Christians.